Curse

Whirlwind · Oct 26, 2007, 06:45 AM // 06:45

I love how everyone talks trash on AoB, then you see so many people running the D/M UW solo build lol...

Div · Oct 26, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

I love how everyone talks trash on AoB, then you see so many people running the D/M UW solo build lol...

I love how everyone talks trash on Healing breeze, then you see so many people running 55 monks.

Just because it's used in a solo farming build doesn't mean it isn't shit in team builds or everywhere else.

Sirius-NZ · Oct 26, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

To be honest - drop the 33% run speed and add 33% attack speed instead. Then it would have applications (or better ones).

I found it helpful in Ruins of Morah solo quite recently:
Holy damage helps? Check. (Margonites and torment creatures.)
Armour boost helps? Check (mostly against Varesh).
Speed boost helps? ... well, no it doesn't.
Non-removable aspect helps? Definitely (enchantment collapse).

Outside of late NF, I can't really think of many places where the holy damage DOES help though... and non-removability isn't terribly useful outside of PvP (please, please don't use AoB in PvP) or this particular mission...

It also occurs to me, despite my earlier statement that holy damage doesn't reduce much, there's something else to be aware of: the damage bonus from Avatar of Lyssa doesn't reduce either, and, well, it's actually a bonus. Plus, with the way most dervish attacks work, the *base* damage may get cut, but the *bonus* damage - which is most of the attack - I'm pretty sure doesn't (I have seen Mystic Sweep roll approximately 30 above the damage range I was getting for straight phys attacks, for instance, even when phys was hitting for less than 10).

So holy doesn't really matter after all, in most cases - you might as well go for raw attack power and AoL.

SotiCoto · Oct 26, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Instant Wammo. Just add Fiery Dragon S.... wait... I mean Saurian Scythe.

Tyla · Oct 26, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

I love how everyone talks trash on AoB, then you see so many people running the D/M UW solo build lol...

[skill]Physical Resistance[/skill]>[skill]avatar of balthazar[/skill]
for soloing UW spiders...........

nn for eternal aura,and free elite spot....kinda nifty eh?

Voltar · Oct 27, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

It is not possible to defend AoB by saying, "It's not bad just the other skills of the same type are better." That means it is BAD. It's not rocket science. It is simple English.

Simple English can still be a load of bullshit. All avatars suck. Anet knows this and that's why they kinda gimped out that Sunspear skill.

Everyone knows that AoGrenth is F'ing AWESOME.

AoB is just like any other skill, it's good for what it's good for...Undead dungeons in GWEN. This bs about calling an elite the, "PWN," or saying it's, "useless," is something stupid people do when they accidentally click the, "POST REPLY," button.

Now that I've aggro'd the entire post I'm going to do what any reasonable person would do and rage-quit.

Str0b0 · Oct 27, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Actually you aggro'd me but your points are not valid in and of themselves. The point is not whether the avatar skills were useless before Eternal Aura. The point is now that we have the ability to permanently keep an avatar up which ones are useful and which ones are useless. AoB is useless. AoL and AoM are great because of universal utility. That's what makes an elite good. If it only has a niche role in PvE then it is useless.

Kwisatz_Haderach · Oct 27, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltar

Now that I've aggro'd the entire post I'm going to do what any reasonable person would do and rage-quit.

Your my hero.

draxynnic · Oct 27, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

It also occurs to me, despite my earlier statement that holy damage doesn't reduce much, there's something else to be aware of: the damage bonus from Avatar of Lyssa doesn't reduce either, and, well, it's actually a bonus. Plus, with the way most dervish attacks work, the *base* damage may get cut, but the *bonus* damage - which is most of the attack - I'm pretty sure doesn't (I have seen Mystic Sweep roll approximately 30 above the damage range I was getting for straight phys attacks, for instance, even when phys was hitting for less than 10).

Correct. Bonus damage is always armour-ignoring except in cases (like the Conjure Element skills and Kindle Arrows) where the skill gives a damage type to the bonus damage.

Coloneh · Oct 27, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Correct. Bonus damage is always armour-ignoring except in cases (like the Conjure Element skills and Kindle Arrows) where the skill gives a damage type to the bonus damage.

thats not bonus damage. its added damage.

Burst Cancel · Oct 28, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

They should have just made AoB = Essence of Celerity amirite?!?

I like Lys better then Mel just because of the difference in energy. Karate-chopping my keyboard is what playing melee is all about, and Lyssa gets me the nrg to chop harder.

I don't see the point of Dwayna in a team build. Most of the hexes in PvE are totally inconsequential, and anything dangerous can be pulled off by remove/cure/inspired hex. Actually, I've never understood the point of taking defense on the melee in general PvE when you have a monk backline. Which, incidentally, is why even the +40 armor from AoB is pretty ****-worthless. Monk slaps a Spirit Bond on you and LoDs once in a while to mop up ... exactly why did you need that +40 again?

Darkside · Oct 28, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

They should have just made AoB = Essence of Celerity amirite?!?

I like Lys better then Mel just because of the difference in energy. Karate-chopping my keyboard is what playing melee is all about, and Lyssa gets me the nrg to chop harder.

I don't see the point of Dwayna in a team build. Most of the hexes in PvE are totally inconsequential, and anything dangerous can be pulled off by remove/cure/inspired hex. Actually, I've never understood the point of taking defense on the melee in general PvE when you have a monk backline. Which, incidentally, is why even the +40 armor from AoB is pretty ****-worthless. Monk slaps a Spirit Bond on you and LoDs once in a while to mop up ... exactly why did you need that +40 again?

You must be one of the lucky ones that always gets a good monk. I've learned from bad experience that monks can never be depended upon. I did a mission the other day using my warrior and I'm pretty certain that monk didn't heal me once the entire mission. I was constantly healing myself and I was glad that I had equipped some self healing.

Personally, I think having some self heal on any character is a good idea. At the very least you can take some pressure off the monks by healing yourself a bit when things get bad allowing them to keep other members of the party alive. I'm not saying your entire skill bar should be devoted to self heal...but one or two skills shouldn't impact your dps.

Burst Cancel · Oct 28, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

I'm not lucky - I just don't PuG.

Defense and healing is fine if you can fit it, but you'll notice that the AoB benefits have basically boiled down to, "well, it gives a permanent +40AL", which is completely inconsequential with a monk behind you and a total waste of the elite slot. Traditional warrior defense elites are nubflags for similar reasons.

In my experience (I'm primarily a monk player), self-healing and defense tends to be either unnecessary or insufficient. With few exceptions, if we're being smashed despite PS, SB, SoA, Aegis, LoD, etc., the small heals and slight armor buffs just aren't going to make a significant difference. The main exceptions are things like Watch Yourself, Shields Up, etc., which are party-wide and can be maintained indefinitely with one or two characters. But single-target stuff like Conviction, Mystic Regen, Healing Signet, etc. just doesn't matter. All the big damage is caught by preprotting, and diffuse damage gets mopped up by LoD.

Swift Thief · Oct 28, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

. Running.

Sirius-NZ · Oct 28, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

I have found conviction + regen useful when taking on 3-4 enemies solo... which I ended up doing in Dunes of Despair once. (Was a bonus capping party - I was holding one of the gates.)

P.S. If AoB was ... say +60 armour, holy damage and 33% IAS, would that be better? Or would +40 be sufficient with the IAS? I figure the idea of the class is to be wammo-ish, but it needs some actual power to do that right.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 28, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Adding IAS with the armour would just make it overpowered.

Mickey · Oct 28, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Adding IAS with the armour would just make it overpowered.

What's critical agility? Besides a PvE skill.

Adjust the skill to this: +24 armor, holy damage, and 25% IAS. Makes it better, but not overpowered.

Burst Cancel · Oct 29, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

25% IAS just means everyone dumps it for Flail or something.

You also have to remember that Critical Agility isn't elite, so sins are still free to take things like Moebius strike and have a free "Look, I'm a *real* frontliner now" buff on top of that. If Crit Agility were elite, a lot of people would be thinking twice before slotting it.

A combined IAS and armor buff usually isn't going to be worth the elite slot. Imagine if Soldier's Stance had an armor buff built-in. Would warriors suddenly be taking that over their current elites? No.

Whiskeyjack · Oct 29, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I'm not lucky - I just don't PuG.

Defense and healing is fine if you can fit it, but you'll notice that the AoB benefits have basically boiled down to, "well, it gives a permanent +40AL", which is completely inconsequential with a monk behind you and a total waste of the elite slot. Traditional warrior defense elites are nubflags for similar reasons.

In my experience (I'm primarily a monk player), self-healing and defense tends to be either unnecessary or insufficient. With few exceptions, if we're being smashed despite PS, SB, SoA, Aegis, LoD, etc., the small heals and slight armor buffs just aren't going to make a significant difference. The main exceptions are things like Watch Yourself, Shields Up, etc., which are party-wide and can be maintained indefinitely with one or two characters. But single-target stuff like Conviction, Mystic Regen, Healing Signet, etc. just doesn't matter. All the big damage is caught by preprotting, and diffuse damage gets mopped up by LoD.

This post sum's it up perfectly imo, I dont PUG often, but when i do i would treat an AoB derv exatly the same as i would a healing hands Wammo- a liability and therefore kicked.

Mickey · Oct 29, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

25% IAS just means everyone dumps it for Flail or something.

You also have to remember that Critical Agility isn't elite, so sins are still free to take things like Moebius strike and have a free "Look, I'm a *real* frontliner now" buff on top of that. If Crit Agility were elite, a lot of people would be thinking twice before slotting it.

A combined IAS and armor buff usually isn't going to be worth the elite slot. Imagine if Soldier's Stance had an armor buff built-in. Would warriors suddenly be taking that over their current elites? No.

Critical Agility = PvE Skill, it's meant to be powerful.

Avatar of Balthazar = Elite Skill Slot, if you buffed it anymore, it might see some abuse in GvG/HA and whatnot.

Avatar of Balthazar sucks now, but if they changed it to IAS, it wouldn't be all that bad, I guess